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Zebulon

[Remove Need for FireFighters for Small Arsons] - Revise

Do you agree that small fires can be passive'd or supervised by Admins & should not require DPS to be online?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you agree that small fires can be passive'd or supervised by Admins & should not require DPS to be online?

    • Yes
      26
    • No
      5


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1 minute ago, Chaos said:

I don't mean to set anyone off, but I don't think FD roleplay is that complicated. Especially at the basic level that Zeb proposes here for small arsons.

it isn't. small fires can be easily put out, you don't need to take a degree to do it. but i'm sure someone who has never done any fd roleplay in the past and doesn't have any real life experience either will naturally have some trouble dealing with them, especially as an admin where you act as a firefighter and you're supposed to set yourself as an example to others. but if you're properly trained to do it, i'm sure there shouldn't be any issue with it.

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Just now, Shaderz said:

it isn't. small fires can be easily put out, you don't need to take a degree to do it. but i'm sure someone who has never done any fd roleplay in the past and doesn't have any real life experience either will naturally have some trouble dealing with them, especially as an admin where you act as a firefighter and you're supposed to set yourself as an example to others. but if you're properly trained to do it, i'm sure there shouldn't be any issue with it.

Unfortunately I would not expect all admins to be trained up on fire roleplay and I don't feel like it would be required on small arsons.

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Just now, Chaos said:

Unfortunately I would not expect all admins to be trained up on fire roleplay and I don't feel like it would be required on small arsons.

then i personally believe it's a bit risky and endangers the roleplay quality if these admins who act like firefighters don't actually know what they're doing on the field. being a firefighter isn't all about holding hoselines and stream water towards the fire, as many people think it is. but as long as it's ensured the roleplay is okay, then that's fine. but i feel like you definitely need to know a thing or two about fires to be able to at least roleplay putting it out.

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4 hours ago, Shaderz said:

then i personally believe it's a bit risky and endangers the roleplay quality if these admins who act like firefighters don't actually know what they're doing on the field. being a firefighter isn't all about holding hoselines and stream water towards the fire, as many people think it is. but as long as it's ensured the roleplay is okay, then that's fine. but i feel like you definitely need to know a thing or two about fires to be able to at least roleplay putting it out.

Except what you're failing to realize is that the vast majority of minor fires is exactly that, arriving, spraying a hose after a bit of minimal hookup and leaving the scene. Remember, the context here is small arson, not structure fires where rescuing people is required, we're talking about cars being lit on fire or trash cans, etc. Fires which most civilians with a fire extinguisher could greatly minimize or totally extinguish and we don't require they undergo firefighter training, clearly.

 

Ultimately, basic fire training is spraying water at the source of the fire, we're not talking about specialized chemical fires that require foam or other specialized equipment.

 

I can't even think of a hypothetical scene that is a small arson where the failure of an admin's roleplay would "endanger roleplay quality" as you cite. That line is simply an exaggeration. After being intimately aware of the issues FD / DPS have faced in the past two years with their roleplay quality, I SERIOUSLY doubt the average admin would roleplay worse than the average firefighter especially if the admin RPing in this scene was comfortable performing such a role.

Edited by ThatGuy

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10 hours ago, ThatGuy said:

Except what you're failing to realize is that the vast majority of minor fires is exactly that, arriving, spraying a hose after a bit of minimal hookup and leaving the scene. Remember, the context here is small arson, not structure fires where rescuing people is required, we're talking about cars being lit on fire or trash cans, etc. Fires which most civilians with a fire extinguisher could greatly minimize or totally extinguish and we don't require they undergo firefighter training, clearly.

 

Ultimately, basic fire training is spraying water at the source of the fire, we're not talking about specialized chemical fires that require foam or other specialized equipment.

 

I can't even think of a hypothetical scene that is a small arson where the failure of an admin's roleplay would "endanger roleplay quality" as you cite. That line is simply an exaggeration. After being intimately aware of the issues FD / DPS have faced in the past two years with their roleplay quality, I SERIOUSLY doubt the average admin would roleplay worse than the average firefighter especially if the admin RPing in this scene was comfortable performing such a role.

yeah except that you have to secure the vehicle first so it doesn't roll (obviously depending on how intense the vehicle fire itself is), conduct forcible entry to complete extinguishment after the fire is darkened down, as well as many other small things that can make a huge difference. remember that vehicle fires can be unpredictable. summarizing them to "spraying a hose" is dangerous. "small" fires are not that small. you say "fires that only require a fire extinguisher" but then talk about vehicle fires, that's a big misconception right there. some better categorization is needed.

 

if you still allow admins to do this and be done with the fire itself then that definitely endangers roleplay quality because he's not properly doing his job as expected from a firefighter on an ic level. this is purely common sense and as much as i hate to base things upon it since common sense itself is very subjective, this is not different than, for example, an admin who's supervising a store robbery not roleplay the security guards (if there are any).  

 

 

Edited by Shaderz

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59 minutes ago, Shaderz said:

yeah except that you have to secure the vehicle first so it doesn't roll (obviously depending on how intense the vehicle fire itself is), conduct forcible entry to complete extinguishment after the fire is darkened down, as well as many other small things that can make a huge difference. remember that vehicle fires can be unpredictable. summarizing them to "spraying a hose" is dangerous. "small" fires are not that small. you say "fires that only require a fire extinguisher" but then talk about vehicle fires, that's a big misconception right there. some better categorization is needed.

 

if you still allow admins to do this and be done with the fire itself then that definitely endangers roleplay quality because he's not properly doing his job as expected from a firefighter on an ic level. this is purely common sense and as much as i hate to base things upon it since common sense itself is very subjective, this is not different than, for example, an admin who's supervising a store robbery not roleplay the security guards (if there are any).  

 

 

I am telling you right now. Most admins can find a CONCLUSION to a small fire without 'endangering' the quality of roleplay on OWL.

 

If you want to make a stink about that, I would simply point out all the other lacking areas of EMS/Fire Dep. Roleplay that we get by on.

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Right now @Shaderz we have a circular issue:

 

 Needing Admins + DPS For (Small) Arson = No Fires = No FF Roleplay = No Fire Fighters 

 

SO INSTEAD

 

Only Needing Admins for Small Arsons = More Fires = More FF Roleplay = More Activity & Draw to be a Fire Fighter 

 

 

Edited by Zebulon

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8 minutes ago, Zebulon said:

I am telling you right now. Most admins can find a CONCLUSION to a small fire without 'endangering' the quality of roleplay on OWL.

 

If you want to make a stink about that, I would simply point out all the other lacking areas of EMS/Fire Dep. Roleplay that we get by on.

find a conclusion isn't the issue i'm seeing right here, the entire process that comes before it is. i'm not against the idea as a whole but you have to draw a line between two things:

  1. small fires.
  2. fires that even a civilian can put out with an extinguisher.

im not categorizing them, by the way. there's not even a way to technically do it. i'm just trying to organize them in a way that people can understand what the issue is. 2 usually implies 1, but 1 definitely doesn't imply 2. im not against the idea of admins acting as firefighters in number 2, that's pretty basic roleplay to be quite honest. but im against admins acting as firefighters in number 1. you've been there before zeb and you know what i mean when i say this. a vehicle fire can be considered a small fire but it can be quite big. and you definitely need some knowledge to put out this kind of fires. not a lot, but a bit.

 

so if admins become eligible to act as firefighters on number 1 case scenarios, im afraid the roleplay quality will be decreased, as most admins dont naturally know how to properly put it out. having faith they'll find a conclusion shouldn't be enough, in my opinion.

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13 minutes ago, Shaderz said:

find a conclusion isn't the issue i'm seeing right here, the entire process that comes before it is.

Nobody complains when admins passive EMS arrivals as 'EMS would take Jim to the Hopsital' etc etc.

 

Do you think the average community member cares how the fire is put out? No, as long as the damage is reasonably simulated. 

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7 hours ago, Zebulon said:

Nobody complains when admins passive EMS arrivals as 'EMS would take Jim to the Hopsital' etc etc.

1

because it's never been put up to discussion and never really seen as a methodological issue to roleplay. not to mention all you'd have to do is transport, which is basically riding a vehicle. you don't need sophisticated roleplay to achieve that, as opposed to dealing with fires.

 

7 hours ago, Zebulon said:

Do you think the average community member cares how the fire is put out? No, as long as the damage is reasonably simulated. 

 

the majority probably doesn't but i'm sure some do. either way, it's not about "if they care how the fire is put out", it's about promoting realistically viable roleplay. nobody cares how you treat an injury either as long as in the end the patient's treated.

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On 11/17/2018 at 10:48 AM, Shaderz said:

yeah except that you have to secure the vehicle first so it doesn't roll (obviously depending on how intense the vehicle fire itself is), conduct forcible entry to complete extinguishment after the fire is darkened down, as well as many other small things that can make a huge difference. remember that vehicle fires can be unpredictable. summarizing them to "spraying a hose" is dangerous. "small" fires are not that small. you say "fires that only require a fire extinguisher" but then talk about vehicle fires, that's a big misconception right there. some better categorization is needed.

 

if you still allow admins to do this and be done with the fire itself then that definitely endangers roleplay quality because he's not properly doing his job as expected from a firefighter on an ic level. this is purely common sense and as much as i hate to base things upon it since common sense itself is very subjective, this is not different than, for example, an admin who's supervising a store robbery not roleplay the security guards (if there are any).  

 

 

 

Okay.

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