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Brett

Two Law Enforcement Factions

Law Enforcement Factions  

71 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think we need two law enforcement factions?

    • Yes, make another one.
      37
    • No, only one.
      35


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Hello, wow it's been a while since I've done a thread like this. About a year really, but I guess this is my life. I am going to make this as detailed, yet as painless as I can for you guys for you to fully understand my point of view of these things, and why I believe this will be a better solution. Now, some of us remember the old days of Owl when we had the San Andreas Highway Patrol along with the Los Santos Police Department. Two law enforcement factions with one mainly policing the city, and the other mainly policing the county. This system in theory allows officers who are dissatisfied with one department, to transfer to another for various reasons and this has been used by previous LSPD and HP members who used to travel between the two when they felt dissatisfied with the performance on one for whatever reason. Yet in Owl today, this is no longer the case. Now before I continue, I will admit that the SAHP and it's share of problems just like the LSPD, but a lot of those problems were more IC then OOC. I personally remember having to step in between the two as Chief Justice, to create agreements between the two factions due to jurisdictional problems and rivalries which actually brought a lot of interesting roleplay in my opinion and it's sad that this roleplay has been stamped out due to the two no longer existing.

 

Let me give you all some background. The SAHP was originally formed as a second law enforcement faction, intended to act as a balance for the LSPD. This way, if one department happens to go through struggles there would still be another law enforcement faction to pick up the pace. Sorta like businesses in our life, where if you're not happy with one business you go to another. This always ensured the SAHP and LSPD were competing, making them update their standards over the other to try and get the "Best Department." Now, I was around a lot during the days when @Nadr ran the SAHP, and to be honest those were some fun times from what I saw. Constant competition, constant IC interventions, and no always running to Faction Management whenever you had problems with leadership. Competition was the key. However, now we only have one law enforcement faction and if you're ever unhappy with either the amount of paperwork, the members, or the leadership, you either have to suck it up and deal with it to enjoy law enforcement roleplay in Owl, or resign and have no alternative which will possibly make you leave the server once you find you have nothing to do.

 

I'm sorta ranting, so let me get back on track here. Eventually after some time and leadership issues in the LSPD and SAHP, including instances of poor membership and leadership of both factions at one point, I as a member of the Faction Management team decided to come up with a plan to improve both factions. Now, I sadly do not have access to that content anymore as it's archived, but needless to say that although my ideas were originally going to be implemented to fix the problems in the factions at the time, my plans were hijacked. You may all remember this part, as I remember you all voicing disappointment with this decision. After my originally reform idea was hijacked, the Sheriffs Department was founded and lead by @Almeida. Yet, at no time despite my constant assurances and communication I got from the department, none of the original problems I addressed in my document at the time when we were discussing reform was ever fixed. SD was just a massive flop, that inherited the issues of the SAHP and LSPD, mashed into one. A few months after that I left Owl due to life choices I needed to deal with, and when I returned I believe two months ago, I come to find t hat the Sheriffs Department I bitterly opposed along with others was reverted back into the Los Santos Police Department with it functioning as a single faction. Yet again, we're still faced with the exact same problems we had one year ago. 

 

And this problem is a server-wide issue, and not simply a law enforcement issue. Roleplay communities are heavily judged upon the factions they found, and the quality of said factions that are around both in the illegal and legal spectrum. Law enforcement roleplay is one of the biggest forms of roleplay promoted in any community, and to see it having the immense problems that are causing members of the LSPD even today to resign with no where else to go, or generally lack interest in being active due to the structure of the department is something that resonates very poorly within a roleplay community. The current LSPD does not have any form of accountability outside of the OOC Faction Management Team, who simply cannot wave a magic wand a fix PD despite the amount of reports may be submitted against the Chief, Assistant Chief, or whatever. And there is no IC way of addressing these problems as the Mayor/Commissioner can't simply dismiss his PD and rebuild it from scratch with new leadership and such, due to the OOC consequences. Leaving players who genuinely want to do this type of roleplay simply unable to do so on Owl. 

 

My idea is simple. I wish to found a new faction, the Los Santos County Sheriffs Office. One I plan on spearheading the development of the faction to ensure quality is of upmost importance, while making sure that it becomes some of the most enjoyable law enforcement roleplay experienced in Owl. As said above, competition is key. And having two factions to ensure quality control for a major roleplay element in the server, is vital! After a year, the LSPD still has not developed an active Detective Bureau to investigate State Crimes, leaving the Federal Task Force who can only deal with Federal Crimes to be the main investigation authority in the State which should not be the case. And as I said above with the lack of accountability, there is nobody to force them to improve. You can replace one chief, but yet you simply keep getting the repeating problems that have 0 initiative to get fixed. This is not a problem that can be fixed within PD, regardless of who you put there. You need a new platform, with new direction, with new leadership. Someone on this forum once said in a thread dealing with illegal roleplay, "If you want to show how roleplay in a certain element should be, you should be the model for that roleplay that others can follow." And I want to do that. 

 

Now, last thing before I end this. I want to point out one thing. Before, we only had a City Government in Los Santos. One who truly only could police the LSPD icly, and had 0 power over the SAHP. Now, we have upgraded to a County Government of Los Santos, meaning the SD would also fall underneath that spear. So that neither of them would run wild. PD would mainly keep to the city, with SO in the counties, however could assist PD, run the prisons, guard the courts, and County Officials who would realistically be served by the Sheriffs Office. Actually set up speed traps and such on the highways, host community events, etc. You may still be of the opinion that the LSPD can simply be reformed, but I'm telling you from experience of IC and OOC dealing with them for over a year, it cannot. And many PD members are frustrated and I'm hearing their concerns. Please leave your opinion on this below, and maybe we can drum up support for this. 

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Just now, Lartsa said:

i'd like to see SAHP coming back, but its not.

Gotta have faith man. Nobody thought we would get the United States Marine Corp on the server, and we did. Nobody thought I'd then be able to transform it into the San Andreas National Guard, but we did. Nobody thought we could get a third law enforcement faction the Palomino Township Police, but we did. 

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1 minute ago, Brett said:

Gotta have faith man. Nobody thought we would get the United States Marine Corp on the server, and we did. Nobody thought I'd then be able to transform it into the San Andreas National Guard, but we did. Nobody thought we could get a third law enforcement faction the Palomino Township Police, but we did. 

 

Thing is, it has been requested before but it has been denied.

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Just now, Antonia said:

Did you make this thread because you were offered Detective III and felt insulted because you wanted more power or? 

I've been Chief Justice, Colonel of the San Andreas National Guard, Assistant Chief of the LSPD, Leader of the Federal Task Force, etc. I don't need more power in any shape. I truly have had my fair share of it. There is a problem with law enforcement, and even before I posted a reinstatement I was oocly dogging them over these issues for about a week.  

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Just now, Lartsa said:

 

Thing is, it has been requested before and it has been denied.

Yea, when you get someone that makes a paragraph with no detail, no vision, no wonder it gets denied. I got Feds, Military, and a bunch of stuff we never thought because I worked hard and put in work. That doesn't ring true from everyone who proposes things. 

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Just now, Antonia said:

Did you make this thread because you were offered Detective III and felt insulted because you wanted more power or? 

 

Would've made a better Lieutenant than you though... 

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3 minutes ago, Brett said:

I've been Chief Justice, Colonel of the San Andreas National Guard, Assistant Chief of the LSPD, Leader of the Federal Task Force, etc. I don't need more power in any shape. I truly have had my fair share of it. There is a problem with law enforcement, and even before I posted a reinstatement I was oocly dogging them over these issues for about a week.  

There's always going to be issues. I've had people come running to me, asking me to help with the currently issues, but I was told by Zebby that the highest rank I would receive is Sergeant when I resigned as a Lieutenant, and that's fair. Regardless of how much work you did in the past and how many issues there is, you still have to work for a position.

 

Regardless of that, I don't think there should be two LEO factions. People get bored of one easily and move on to the other and that's always how it's been. One large faction with jurisdiction over the entire area is more logical for the player base.

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Just now, Antonia said:

There's always going to be issues. I've had people come running to me, asking me to help with the currently issues, but I was told by Zebby that the highest rank I would receive is Sergeant when I resigned as a Lieutenant, and that's fair. Regardless of how much work you did in the past and how many issues there is, you still have to work for a position.

I agree that you most work for positions, but my problem isn't with positions. My problem is the bad quality of law enforcement in general. And it wouldn't matter if I managed to work my way to Chief of the LSPD, the department itself is just unfixable with the amount of members it has, without you changing the basics of how it runs and operates which will piss more people off then anything. Starting from scratch to do something right, is better then trying to demolish a long-existing structure. It has 0 to do with a position. Just truly what the right way to fix the problem is. 

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Just now, Brett said:

I agree that you most work for positions, but my problem isn't with positions. My problem is the bad quality of law enforcement in general. And it wouldn't matter if I managed to work my way to Chief of the LSPD, the department itself is just unfixable with the amount of members it has, without you changing the basics of how it runs and operates which will piss more people off then anything. Starting from scratch to do something right, is better then trying to demolish a long-existing structure. It has 0 to do with a position. Just truly what the right way to fix the problem is. 

But you denied a position that would enable you to start helping to fix those issues. You can't just expect to replace people because you have experience. You created an entire thread about creating a second faction but you want to "fix" the issues with the current one. Starting a second faction won't do that, it'll only take players away from it and potentially make it worse.

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Just now, Antonia said:

But you denied a position that would enable you to start helping to fix those issues. You can't just expect to replace people because you have experience. You created an entire thread about creating a second faction but you want to "fix" the issues with the current one. Starting a second faction won't do that, it'll only take players away from it and potentially make it worse.

Nothing I do, can possibly make this faction worse. I am constantly getting messages from various LSPD officers who are trying to come to the Federal Task Force, because their sick of the bullshit within the LSPD. there is NOTHING, I could've done to fix the faction as a whole. I was shooting for Lt. just to fix their Detective Bureau, but the problems are far beyond even that which I would have no power to fix. And who am I replacing? There is nobody  to replace, as LSPD is still going to live and the LSPD. And the argument of "It'll take players away from it," has always been proven false.

 

We made a Palomino Township Police, a third law enforcement faction that merely policed Palomino Creek when we had the SAHP and LSPD. It had around 3 people, and was very active, did it's job, and didn't hinder the HP or the PD. 

 

I founded SANG, with people telling me it would take roleplay away from Los Santos to have them RP in Fort Carson. But it didn't. The server was unharmed. 

 

Under the courts we founded SADLE, with people claiming it would take people away from PD and HP. It didn't. And it later become the FTF.

 

Even when HP was around, PD suffered from internal administration issues that had NOTHING to do with the HP. 

There is 0 evidence that proves in Owl that making another faction, will take from the existing. Remember Cargo Group? Bartman founded the Postal Service to compete with them, and actually provided a challenge to Cargo Group when they proved to be more popular. 

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I support your idea, i do miss HP, if i had another chance to do the cadet stage, i would try it depending on my work & college schedule.

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I actually wanted to join the LSPD multiple times but they just wont let you unless you have a mic. Yet they make exceptions for shy "girls" like SazLore and Scarlet? Its fucking bullshit. HP actually let me join without a mic and I was doing good.

 

Personally, I think there should be two like there always had been. One focused on traffic and one focused on crime in the city.

 

I agree with what @Brett said about LSPD. The detectives are inactive I've only ever seen one. There needs to be more focus on detectives.

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How 2 fix PD:

  • Lessen restrictions on corruption and illegal alts
  • Lessen required amount of activity on a weekly basis and instead on a bi-weekly basis (people have schools, jobs, etc.. hello?)
  • Fix the Command:Sergeant:Police Officer ratio - there shouldn't be 5 Lt's/Ctp's for 2 Sgt's and 20 P-I > P-III's
  • Less drama (pick up on when there's drama going on in the faction and tackle it (big up shanks for his efforts towards this in hp))
  • Weekly/bi-weekly reminders to players for what they could be doing if they were serving in the LSPD (such as bureaus, divisions, etc.)
  • Redirect traffic towards the PD forums with press releases, advertisements, etc.
  • Promote faction screenshot threads to show off faction roleplay to the server
  • Remove the /dispatch map icons for the love of god so players are actually required to UPDATE during pursuits (thus pushing for higher standards)

magic, doesn't take a whole new faction

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Never have and never will see the need for a second LEO faction. Whatever issues there are with the current can be fixed. Making a second faction is redundant.

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Just now, Brett said:

Nothing I do, can possibly make this faction worse. I am constantly getting messages from various LSPD officers who are trying to come to the Federal Task Force, because their sick of the bullshit within the LSPD. there is NOTHING, I could've done to fix the faction as a whole. I was shooting for Lt. just to fix their Detective Bureau, but the problems are far beyond even that which I would have no power to fix. And who am I replacing? There is nobody  to replace, as LSPD is still going to live and the LSPD. And the argument of "It'll take players away from it," has always been proven false.

 

We made a Palomino Township Police, a third law enforcement faction that merely policed Palomino Creek when we had the SAHP and LSPD. It had around 3 people, and was very active, did it's job, and didn't hinder the HP or the PD. 

 

I founded SANG, with people telling me it would take roleplay away from Los Santos to have them RP in Fort Carson. But it didn't. The server was unharmed. 

 

Under the courts we founded SADLE, with people claiming it would take people away from PD and HP. It didn't. And it later become the FTF.

 

Even when HP was around, PD suffered from internal administration issues that had NOTHING to do with the HP. 

There is 0 evidence that proves in Owl that making another faction, will take from the existing. Remember Cargo Group? Bartman founded the Postal Service to compete with them, and actually provided a challenge to Cargo Group when they proved to be more popular. 

You were aiming for Lieutenant over DB while there's no one holding that position and you were offered Detective Sergeant. I think that's quite decent and if you're absolutely certain you can fix the current issues, then I don't have a doubt you'll get Lieutenant quickly. Players are upset with the current state of PD, and if there's another faction running better, PD's member base will be wiped out in no time and THAT will make it worse. 

 

Owl doesn't need two factions right now. You should just take the position and help be apart of making the faction great again, but that's my two cents. I don't have doubts in your abilities.

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5 minutes ago, xSweg said:

I actually wanted to join the LSPD multiple times but they just wont let you unless you have a mic. Yet they make exceptions for shy "girls" like SazLore and Scarlet? Its fucking bullshit.

They transferred from Highway Patrol where microphones weren't required. Zil did the same at first, but was then denied a reinstatement after retiring as a Captain because he lacked a microphone. Same happened for multiple other players who were originally in Highway Patrol. 

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Just now, 44Theory said:

They transferred from Highway Patrol where microphones weren't required. Zil did the same at first, but was then denied a reinstatement after retiring as a Captain because he lacked a microphone. Same happened for multiple other players who were originally in Highway Patrol. 

 

 

You don't need a mic to RP a cop. Its a silly requirement. This is a text based RP server.

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Just now, xSweg said:

You don't need a mic to RP a cop. Its a silly requirement. This is a text based RP server.

How are you going to update during a pursuit? Pretty difficult to type and drive at the same time. Last I checked, they were pushing for high quality and realistic roleplay. Not being able to update properly during a pursuit just nullifies that completely.

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Just now, Antonia said:

You were aiming for Lieutenant over DB while there's no one holding that position and you were offered Detective Sergeant. I think that's quite decent and if you're absolutely certain you can fix the current issues, then I don't have a doubt you'll get Lieutenant quickly. Players are upset with the current state of PD, and if there's another faction running better, PD's member base will be wiped out in no time and THAT will make it worse. 

 

Owl doesn't need two factions right now. You should just take the position and help be apart of making the faction great again, but that's my two cents. I don't have doubts in your abilities.

I understand. But even if PDs memberbase will be wiped out, that's truly speaking volumes. Two law enforcement factions can pick up if the other slacks, so law enforcement remains consistent. I appreciate your confidence and respect your opinion, though. I'm merely just making the point that this doesn't concern me, more so the entire server and the PD members who feel ignored, overworked, or stressed due to the current problems. 

 

4 minutes ago, 44Theory said:

How 2 fix PD:

  • Lessen restrictions on corruption and illegal alts
  • Lessen required amount of activity on a weekly basis and instead on a bi-weekly basis (people have schools, jobs, etc.. hello?)
  • Fix the Command:Sergeant:Police Officer ratio - there shouldn't be 5 Lt's/Ctp's for 2 Sgt's and 20 P-I > P-III's
  • Less drama (pick up on when there's drama going on in the faction and tackle it (big up shanks for his efforts towards this in hp))
  • Weekly/bi-weekly reminders to players for what they could be doing if they were serving in the LSPD (such as bureaus, divisions, etc.)
  • Promote faction screenshot threads to show off faction roleplay to the server
  • Remove the /dispatch map icons for the love of god so players are actually required to UPDATE during pursuits (thus pushing for higher standards)

magic, doesn't take a whole new faction

I would agree to this, if some of this could stay consistent chief per chief. Whenever a new chief comes into the LSPD, it's an entire new structure. If one really good chief comes in and fixes the issue, another chief can revoke it all with no negative repercussions. So yes, I agree that maybe this stuff could work. But would it stay? History of LSPD says it dosen't.

 

5 minutes ago, ertidog said:

Never have and never will see the need for a second LEO faction. Whatever issues there are with the current can be fixed. Making a second faction is redundant.

Only in the short-term maybe. Not long term. 

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Just now, xSweg said:

 

You don't need a mic to RP a cop. Its a silly requirement. This is a text based RP server.

 

You keep saying that everywhere. The bold line but it has many more aspects to it and the police RP is wider then you think. TS is actually very necessary. As for Scarlet, she was denied the re-instatement the second time.

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1 minute ago, 44Theory said:

How are you going to update during a pursuit? Pretty difficult to type and drive at the same time. Last I checked, they were pushing for high quality and realistic roleplay. Not being able to update properly during a pursuit just nullifies that completely.

 

 

Lol you literally have fucking /backup and a whole /dispatch system u dont need to tell people where you are

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