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Shabo

Islam in Los Santos

56 posts in this topic

So if you want to roleplay ISIS or liberal muslim you are all welcome.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but I sincerely hope you actually know a good amount of information about how Islam works. I'm not saying you need to be like a Muslim Cleric or something, but from that comment alone it seems like this faction is going to shoot off into some kind terrorist shit that has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do about extremism and some kind of violence or protest movement. Just hope this is legit, and won't turn out to be a safe-haven for anyone wanting to be an Islamic extremist. 

Shabo, usev25, rauf123 and 1 other like this

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nice to see some Muslim legal rp, but it will make ppl think twice icly before calling them terrorists :)

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24 minutes ago, Brett said:

So if you want to roleplay ISIS or liberal muslim you are all welcome.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but I sincerely hope you actually know a good amount of information about how Islam works. I'm not saying you need to be like a Muslim Cleric or something, but from that comment alone it seems like this faction is going to shoot off into some kind terrorist shit that has nothing to do with Islam, and everything to do about extremism and some kind of violence or protest movement. Just hope this is legit, and won't turn out to be a safe-haven for anyone wanting to be an Islamic extremist. 

I don't see the problem with people roleplaying terrorists or whatever. It's all IC. Maybe one player roleplays peaceful muslim and then he roleplays the he sees kids in syria and etc and he rolepalyed getting mad so he goes to punish someone. allahu akbar style.

 

I have roleplayed with my muslim characters for 1 or 2 years now and other muslim rpers come in all types. Most people who want to roleplay muslim don't play extremites. They want to combine maybe Afro-american gangster + Muslim identity. That is as realistic as it gets. I live in Malmo in Sweden where many arabs, somalis, turks, kurds, syriacs and other youths participate in criminality and still identifiy heavily with their religion, even if they break many of the religious laws in it. So it is realistic in that sense. Plus there are many mosques who recruit to extremist organisations and so on. It's a normal thing, especially when islam is prelevant in some minority group. look at europe.

It's mostly trolls who rp allahu akbar im gonna blow myself. And trolls are admin's job to handle, not mine. I can only report them if they break rules. However people should be able to roleplay as they want. Islam is very very diverse in it's political movements. Here in Turkey you have anti-capitalist movements who go out from an Islamic perspective.

Plus I don't see a point in actually knowing how Islam works. The people's claiming to be muslim differ a lot in their way of life, even inside the diffrent branches. Turkey for example still has very hetrodox versions of Islam. Alevis, who are called muslims, believe in a trinity between God, Mohammed and Ali. This is not supported in any way by the Qur'an. But they are still considered muslim. Islam is just a label with no content. So anyone can roleplay a muslim without knowing anything about Islam. Many muslims IRL are very unaware of their own religion and are ignorant about it.

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Just now, Shabo said:

I don't see the problem with people roleplaying terrorists or whatever. It's all IC. Maybe one player roleplays peaceful muslim and then he roleplays the he sees kids in syria and etc and he rolepalyed getting mad so he goes to punish someone. allahu akbar style.

 

I have roleplayed with my muslim characters for 1 or 2 years now and other muslim rpers come in all types. Most people who want to roleplay muslim don't play extremites. They want to combine maybe Afro-american gangster + Muslim identity. That is as realistic as it gets. I live in Malmo in Sweden where many arabs, somalis, turks, kurds, syriacs and other youths participate in criminality and still identifiy heavily with their religion, even if they break many of the religious laws in it. So it is realistic in that sense. Plus there are many mosques who recruit to extremist organisations and so on. It's a normal thing, especially when islam is prelevant in some minority group. look at europe.

It's mostly trolls who rp allahu akbar im gonna blow myself. And trolls are admin's job to handle not mine, not mine. I can only report them if they break rules. However people should be able to roleplay as they want. Islam is very very diverse in it's political movements. Here in Turkey you have anti-capitalist movements who go out from an Islamic perspective.

Plus I don't see a point in actually knowing how Islam works. The people's claiming to be muslim differ a lot in their way of life, even inside the diffrent of shoots. Turkey for example still very hetrodox version of Islam. Alevis, who are called muslims, believe in a trinity between God, Mohammed and Ali. This is not supported in any way by the Qur'an. But they are still considered muslim. Islam is just a label with no content. 

Ok, hold on. Yes, what a person chooses to RP is fully up to them, we're in agreement there. But saying that it's ok for a muslim to get angry and go Allahu Akbar Style with an official OOC endorsement of that behavior from just your faction thread, does not represent something I personally wish to endorse and is rather insulting to people who are decent muslims. I'd be making this same argument if you made a Catholic Church and had in your faction thread "If you want to go on Crusades against other religions as a catholic of this church, that is also fine." And saying there are many mosques who recruit to extremist organizations is soo wrong, that I don't really want to even touch upon that subject. There was an FBI operation in the USA that put federal agents in a mosque trying to encourage that extremist behavior and/or join it, and the people of that Mosques actually REPORTED the FBI AGENT to the FBI

 

You're right in the sense that trolls like to do the allahu akbar, but you're being an enabling factor of that trolling behavior simply by condoning it in your faction topic which is my major issue of this thread and makes you at fault if they start committing more of this behavior due to your "faction." 

 

Plus I don't see a point in actually knowing how Islam works.

 

Then don't do the damn faction. If I don't actually know how Christianity works, or how the courts work, or how law enforcement works, why in the hell would I create faction centered around that stuff? Sure Islam has it's branches, but so does Christianity. It's split between Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, that further differ into various branches and ideologies just like Islam does only they center more on the Shia and Sunni Divide. I have a huge problem with a faction coming up that requires some knowledge of something, that you say you do not have. It would be the same with me opening a High School on this server to encourage school RP, without knowing a single thing about Math, Science, etc to teach. Explain to me how you expect to encourage Muslim RP, when you don't see a point in knowing what a Muslim believes? 

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1 hour ago, Brett said:

Ok, hold on. Yes, what a person chooses to RP is fully up to them, we're in agreement there. But saying that it's ok for a muslim to get angry and go Allahu Akbar Style with an official OOC endorsement of that behavior from just your faction thread, does not represent something I personally wish to endorse and is rather insulting to people who are decent muslims. I'd be making this same argument if you made a Catholic Church and had in your faction thread "If you want to go on Crusades against other religions as a catholic of this church, that is also fine." And saying there are many mosques who recruit to extremist organizations is soo wrong, that I don't really want to even touch upon that subject. There was an FBI operation in the USA that put federal agents in a mosque trying to encourage that extremist behavior and/or join it, and the people of that Mosques actually REPORTED the FBI AGENT to the FBI

 

You're right in the sense that trolls like to do the allahu akbar, but you're being an enabling factor of that trolling behavior simply by condoning it in your faction topic which is my major issue of this thread and makes you at fault if they start committing more of this behavior due to your "faction." 

 

Plus I don't see a point in actually knowing how Islam works.

 

Then don't do the damn faction. If I don't actually know how Christianity works, or how the courts work, or how law enforcement works, why in the hell would I create faction centered around that stuff? Sure Islam has it's branches, but so does Christianity. It's split between Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants, that further differ into various branches and ideologies just like Islam does only they center more on the Shia and Sunni Divide. I have a huge problem with a faction coming up that requires some knowledge of something, that you say you do not have. It would be the same with me opening a High School on this server to encourage school RP, without knowing a single thing about Math, Science, etc to teach. Explain to me how you expect to encourage Muslim RP, when you don't see a point in knowing what a Muslim believes? 

If they have proper IC reasons and the actions they plan to do fits to their character, then they can go allahu akbar style as much as they want. I can't restrict someone's roleplay. If 90% of the people that come's and want's to roleplay in the mosques want's to go and blow up buildings, and has the proper characters and roleplay for it, then I can't restrict that roleplay, that would be PG. If 100% comes and wants to do "decent muslim" roleplay, then I can't restrict their roleplay. I don't think it is offending to muslims about what extremites do. They care more about themselves than they care about God. 

You are probaly right on the extremist recruiting in mosques, in the US. And since it is in the US we are roleplaying, you are right bro. 

However it's normal in Sweden and Turkey. That's what I had in my head. that was stupid and ethnocentric of me. Here is an article in Turkish about Mosques who recruit for Al Qaeda and ISIS:
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/dunya/422287/Kilis_teki_iki_cami_Kaide_ve_ISiD_icin.html
And here is for recruitment in Sweden, in swedish:
http://www.sakerhetspolisen.se/ovrigt/pressrum/aktuellt/aktuellt/2015-06-01-tillslag-i-orebro---misstankt-terrorrekrytering.html

Yes, my friend. You don't even need minimal knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. My character calls himself a muslim. But maybe what my character imagines as Islam, is not Islam. So when my character tell other characters about Islam, maybe it is not "true". But it can only be true if we presuppose that Islam is something that can be true or false. You lift up the example yourself "I'm not saying you need to be like a Muslim Cleric". Where do we draw the line? How much does one have to know? I believe nothing. But you can not roleplay as a muslim who is familiar with the Qur'an if you haven't maybe read the Qur'an or commentaries on it. And how do we decide if someone familiar with the Qur'an? It is our characters subjective judgement that will decide that. If our characters also have knowledge about the Qur'an they claim to be able tojudge the knowledge of the character roleplaying to have familiar knowledge about Islam. If my character claims to be a muslim and says things that has nothing to do with Islam, then that is an IC issiue. You are talking about Islam as if it was something that exists as an objective reality. I'm telling you that it is a social construct. And it is our characters that judges if it is Islam or if it is not. I'm sorry for what I'm going to say, and I'm really sorry if it is just wrong, but you seem to mix your SJW feelings about Islam. Who are you to decide if ISIS is muslim or not? Who are you to decide who are "decent muslims" and who are not? What is a decent muslim? A muslim who conforms to western values? Someone who just calls himself a muslim without implementing the things said in the Qur'an? Someone who tries to live by the Qur'an by the word? You are trying to put Islam inside a little box. You just outhrightly ignored the example I brought up about Alevites in Turkey. During the 16th century, Turkmen tribes in Eastern Anatolia claimed Sah Ismail to be a God, Mahdi and Ali. The Turkmen tribes who fought with Shah Ismail even ate human meat and followed pagan rituals. But they all claimed to be muslims.  And today they are still percieved as muslims in the common consciousness of people. Islam as a objective reality tells us that that they were not muslims. But Islam as a social construct, tells us that they were muslims. It is rather your ignorance of Islam that makes you unaware of what is needed to roleplay a muslim. Many muslims today are still very ignorant about their own religion. So it is highly possible and realistic to roleplay a muslim character without knowing anything about Islam. I never stated that I was ignorant of Islam, I just said that you don't need any knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. If your character claims to say something that is islamic and my character percieves it as heathen-speak then I will react properly.

It would be rather funny if somone roleplays as Imam and then a member of the mosque points out that the Imam is wrong. That would be fun roleplay. But you are more interested in steretypes.

 

Muslim RP in your sense is sterotypical roleplay lol. I didn't want to bring up this, since I don't believe one has knowledge about something just because one belong to a certain group but I come from a muslim family with origins in Turkey. I have spent 1/4 of my life in Turkey I'm very well aware of how people who claim to be muslim act. However I'm grown up in Malmo in Sweden with many arabs, kurds and turks. I know how these people act in school, work and so on. But it is only their stereotypes I can replicate. If it is sterotypical roleplay you want, that is no problem. But people who claim to be muslim vary in personality and knowledge about Islam.

My character's "lack of knowledge" about the court's system becomes a lack of knowledge only when other character's claim to have higher knowledge than me. You seem to want a certain type of roleplay. 

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48 minutes ago, Shabo said:

If they have proper IC reasons and the actions they plan to do fits to their character, then they can go allahu akbar style as much as they want. I can't restrict someone's roleplay. If 90% of the people that come's and want's to roleplay in the mosques want's to go and blow up buildings, and has the proper characters and roleplay for it, then I can't restrict that roleplay, that would be PG. If 100% comes and wants to do "decent muslim" roleplay, then I can't restrict their roleplay. I don't think it is offending to muslims about what extremites do. They care more about themselves than they care about God. 

You are probaly right on the extremist recruiting in mosques, in the US. And since it is in the US we are roleplaying, you are right bro. 

However it's normal in Sweden and Turkey. That's what I had in my head. that was stupid and ethnocentric of me. Here is an article in Turkish about Mosques who recruit for Al Qaeda and ISIS:
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/dunya/422287/Kilis_teki_iki_cami_Kaide_ve_ISiD_icin.html
And here is for recruitment in Sweden, in swedish:
http://www.sakerhetspolisen.se/ovrigt/pressrum/aktuellt/aktuellt/2015-06-01-tillslag-i-orebro---misstankt-terrorrekrytering.html

Yes, my friend. You don't even need minimal knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. My character calls himself a muslim. But maybe what my character imagines as Islam, is not Islam. So when my character tell other characters about Islam, maybe it is not "true". But it can only be true if we presuppose that Islam is something that can be true or false. You lift up the example yourself "I'm not saying you need to be like a Muslim Cleric". Where do we draw the line? How much does one have to know? I believe nothing. But you can not roleplay as a muslim who is familiar with the Qur'an if you haven't maybe read the Qur'an or commentaries on it. And how do we decide if someone familiar with the Qur'an? It is our characters subjective judgement that will decide that. If our characters also have knowledge about the Qur'an they claim to be able tojudge the knowledge of the character roleplaying to have familiar knowledge about Islam. If my character claims to be a muslim and says things that has nothing to do with Islam, then that is an IC issiue. You are talking about Islam as if it was something that exists as an objective reality. I'm telling you that it is a social construct. And it is our characters that judges if it is Islam or if it is not. I'm sorry for what I'm going to say, and I'm really sorry if it is just wrong, but you seem to mix your SJW feelings about Islam. Who are you to decide if ISIS is muslim or not? Who are you to decide who are "decent muslims" and who are not? What is a decent muslim? A muslim who conforms to western values? Someone who just calls himself a muslim without implementing the things said in the Qur'an? Someone who tries to live by the Qur'an by the word? You are trying to put Islam inside a little box. You just outhrightly ignored the example I brought up about Alevites in Turkey. During the 16th century, Turkmen tribes in Eastern Anatolia claimed Sah Ismail to be a God, Mahdi and Ali. The Turkmen tribes who fought with Shah Ismail even ate human meat and followed pagan rituals. But they all claimed to be muslims.  And today they are still percieved as muslims in the common consciousness of people. Islam as a objective reality tells us that that they were not muslims. But Islam as a social construct, tells us that they were muslims. It is rather your ignorance of Islam that makes you unaware of what is needed to roleplay a muslim. Many muslims today are still very ignorant about their own religion. So it is highly possible and realistic to roleplay a muslim character without knowing anything about Islam. I never stated that I was ignorant of Islam, I just said that you don't need any knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. If your character claims to say something that is islamic and my character percieves it as heathen-speak then I will react properly.

It would be rather funny if somone roleplays as Imam and then a member of the mosque points out that the Imam is wrong. That would be fun roleplay. But you are more interested in steretypes.

 

Muslim RP in your sense is sterotypical roleplay lol. I didn't want to bring up this, since I don't believe one has knowledge about something just because one belong to a certain group but I come from a muslim family with origins in Turkey. I have spent 1/4 of my life in Turkey I'm very well aware of how people who claim to be muslim act. However I'm grown up in Malmo in Sweden with many arabs, kurds and turks. I know how these people act in school, work and so on. But it is only their stereotypes I can replicate. If it is sterotypical roleplay you want, that is no problem. But people who claim to be muslim vary in personality and knowledge about Islam.

My character's "lack of knowledge" about the court's system becomes a lack of knowledge only when other character's claim to have higher knowledge than me. You seem to want a certain type of roleplay. 

I am inclined to believe that this faction is only here to encourage terrorist roleplay, and will not serve the server in a way that is constructive. Good luck with this faction, but your ignorance on the very topic you are apparently trying to bring into the server is quite troubling in itself.  

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1 hour ago, Shabo said:

If they have proper IC reasons and the actions they plan to do fits to their character, then they can go allahu akbar style as much as they want. I can't restrict someone's roleplay. If 90% of the people that come's and want's to roleplay in the mosques want's to go and blow up buildings, and has the proper characters and roleplay for it, then I can't restrict that roleplay, that would be PG. If 100% comes and wants to do "decent muslim" roleplay, then I can't restrict their roleplay. I don't think it is offending to muslims about what extremites do. They care more about themselves than they care about God. 

You are probaly right on the extremist recruiting in mosques, in the US. And since it is in the US we are roleplaying, you are right bro. 

However it's normal in Sweden and Turkey. That's what I had in my head. that was stupid and ethnocentric of me. Here is an article in Turkish about Mosques who recruit for Al Qaeda and ISIS:
http://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/haber/dunya/422287/Kilis_teki_iki_cami_Kaide_ve_ISiD_icin.html
And here is for recruitment in Sweden, in swedish:
http://www.sakerhetspolisen.se/ovrigt/pressrum/aktuellt/aktuellt/2015-06-01-tillslag-i-orebro---misstankt-terrorrekrytering.html

Yes, my friend. You don't even need minimal knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. My character calls himself a muslim. But maybe what my character imagines as Islam, is not Islam. So when my character tell other characters about Islam, maybe it is not "true". But it can only be true if we presuppose that Islam is something that can be true or false. You lift up the example yourself "I'm not saying you need to be like a Muslim Cleric". Where do we draw the line? How much does one have to know? I believe nothing. But you can not roleplay as a muslim who is familiar with the Qur'an if you haven't maybe read the Qur'an or commentaries on it. And how do we decide if someone familiar with the Qur'an? It is our characters subjective judgement that will decide that. If our characters also have knowledge about the Qur'an they claim to be able tojudge the knowledge of the character roleplaying to have familiar knowledge about Islam. If my character claims to be a muslim and says things that has nothing to do with Islam, then that is an IC issiue. You are talking about Islam as if it was something that exists as an objective reality. I'm telling you that it is a social construct. And it is our characters that judges if it is Islam or if it is not. I'm sorry for what I'm going to say, and I'm really sorry if it is just wrong, but you seem to mix your SJW feelings about Islam. Who are you to decide if ISIS is muslim or not? Who are you to decide who are "decent muslims" and who are not? What is a decent muslim? A muslim who conforms to western values? Someone who just calls himself a muslim without implementing the things said in the Qur'an? Someone who tries to live by the Qur'an by the word? You are trying to put Islam inside a little box. You just outhrightly ignored the example I brought up about Alevites in Turkey. During the 16th century, Turkmen tribes in Eastern Anatolia claimed Sah Ismail to be a God, Mahdi and Ali. The Turkmen tribes who fought with Shah Ismail even ate human meat and followed pagan rituals. But they all claimed to be muslims.  And today they are still percieved as muslims in the common consciousness of people. Islam as a objective reality tells us that that they were not muslims. But Islam as a social construct, tells us that they were muslims. It is rather your ignorance of Islam that makes you unaware of what is needed to roleplay a muslim. Many muslims today are still very ignorant about their own religion. So it is highly possible and realistic to roleplay a muslim character without knowing anything about Islam. I never stated that I was ignorant of Islam, I just said that you don't need any knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. If your character claims to say something that is islamic and my character percieves it as heathen-speak then I will react properly.

It would be rather funny if somone roleplays as Imam and then a member of the mosque points out that the Imam is wrong. That would be fun roleplay. But you are more interested in steretypes.

 

Muslim RP in your sense is sterotypical roleplay lol. I didn't want to bring up this, since I don't believe one has knowledge about something just because one belong to a certain group but I come from a muslim family with origins in Turkey. I have spent 1/4 of my life in Turkey I'm very well aware of how people who claim to be muslim act. However I'm grown up in Malmo in Sweden with many arabs, kurds and turks. I know how these people act in school, work and so on. But it is only their stereotypes I can replicate. If it is sterotypical roleplay you want, that is no problem. But people who claim to be muslim vary in personality and knowledge about Islam.

My character's "lack of knowledge" about the court's system becomes a lack of knowledge only when other character's claim to have higher knowledge than me. You seem to want a certain type of roleplay. 

 

That Turkey news is pretty different from what are you talking about lol.

 

You shouldn't learn about Islam by watching Homeland series or other american series. 

 

Also.. that logo.. 

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I'm really confused because first of all Isalm does not represent ISIS , Second of all ISIS is ILLEGAL :/ 

BTw best of luck

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Interested in a little bit of this.

 

Ignore half the shit above and do what you want though, mate. At the end of the day it's a fucking game and the moment you have to do research and become an expert it on something just to role play it loses fun and feels like a job. It just so happens the guy shitting on you had his terrorist scenario's in the past and had the shit spawned instead of developing his character. What a fucking mug.

 

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13 hours ago, Brett said:

I am inclined to believe that this faction is only here to encourage terrorist roleplay, and will not serve the server in a way that is constructive. Good luck with this faction, but your ignorance on the very topic you are apparently trying to bring into the server is quite troubling in itself.  

 

Alright bro. I know you comment cause you want enjoyable and good roleplay on the server, but I doubt you know anything about Islam to judge my knowledge lol. You are very welcome to pinpoint what was wrong in what I wrote. I come from a muslim household. I frequently listen to islamic teachers, mainly turkish, such as Nihat Hatipoglu, Edip Yuksel, Cubbeli Ahmet Hoca, Yasar Nuri Özturk. All of these come from very diverse perspectives. Some mix nationalism with Islam. Some focus solely on Islam. Some reject the hadiths and see Qur'an as the sole source.

 

I told you, I have grown up in a city with a prominent muslim minority city. I know how these people act as I have went to school with them and I am one of them too. These people are my friends and people I see everyday. They are a very good insipration for muslim roleplay in LS.

 

All this knowledge that I personally experience and have read through books makes me think that you don't need any knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. You haven't told me why one need's knowledge. You have only refered to analogies and even there you are faulty. Someone who can't roleplay a good teacher will very probaly be percieved as a bad teacher in IC. 

 

I believe our disagreement comes from that I will tolerate a lot more as IC while you have a lesser tolerance of that. You want to emulate a certain type of roleplay that conform to your perception of reality. When some things don't act as you want, they will be non-rp. That restricts individuality and you define what things are and are not. However you can draw a clear line between who are trolls and who are not.

I believe in a more open-ended reality. Wouldn't it be crazy if every single character in Los Santo was devout muslims lol. And we all would vote through Shariah laws in the city and the PD force would enforce Shariah. It would be very unrealistic in the sense that, the probability of that happening is zero IRL and meet problems with federal laws. But there is a possiblity for that in Owl. It is those non-limits that I believe in. I want everything to be kept IC. If 1000 people come to me and say "Liibaan, I want to blow up Los Santos". Then I can't as 1 to 1000 control the faction in a way that stops that. It would be PG. If 1000 people come and tell stories about Star wars and calls it Islam, then Liibaan can't as 1 person control 1000. The faction will then go on to tell that Islam is star wars. The chances for that IRL is as much as rolling a 6 on a dice 10000 times in a row. But it is possible. And I can't restrict that as 1 player as that would be PG.

 

peace and love bro

 

12 hours ago, GeroXy said:

 

That Turkey news is pretty different from what are you talking about lol.

 

You shouldn't learn about Islam by watching Homeland series or other american series. 

 

Also.. that logo.. 


The article writes "Hem El Nusra (El Kaide) hem de IŞİD, Kilis’ten Suriye’ye adam transfer etme çalışmalarına devam ediyorlar. Hatta Kilis’te iki cami vardır (isimlerini istediğim halde vermek istemedi, ‘bilmiyorum’ dedi). Bunlardan biri El Kaide’ye gidenler için, diğeri de IŞİD’e gidecekler için kullanılır. Bu iki camide iki grubun temsilcileri bulunur. Bu camilerden halen Suriye’ye savaşçı geçilir. "

 

Which translates to: "Both ISIS and Al-Nusra continues their operations to transport men over from Turkey to Syria. In Kilis there are two mosque's (even when I asked the names of these, he didn't want to give out their names, he said "I don't know".) One of these is for those who are going to Al-Qaida (Al-Nusra) and ther other is used for those who are going to ISIS. At both these mosques the groups representatives are present. From these mosques, fighters can still get over to Syria"

 

You are right. It is not about recruitment, but in the mosque there are clearly, according to the article, people who work for ISIS and Al-Nusra. So it is not pretty diffrent. It is diffrent, but it's the same thing. I must've thought of transfer as in transfer in football hahahahahaha.

 

I don't watch american series. I doubt very much that what I wrote about Alevites or Sah Ismail comes from Homeland or some american serie lol. It comes from these books:

 

Amoretti, B.S, 1986. “Religion in the Timurid and Safavid periods” in Harold, Bailey – Jackson, Peter – Lockhart, Laurence, The Cambridge history of Iran. p. 610-655.


Gallagher, Amelia, 2010. “Shah Isma’il Safevi and the Mi’raj: Hata’i’s Vision of a Sacred Assembly” in Gruber, Christer – Colby, Frederick (editors) The Prophet’s ascension: crosscultural encounters with the Islamic mir’aj tales. Blomington: Indiana University Press.  p. 313- 329

 

Heinz, Halm, 2004. Shi’ism.  New York: Columbia University Press.

 

You are very welcome to tell me what I am wrong about, kardeş :).

 

6 hours ago, JLKudaAT said:

Interested in a little bit of this.

 

Ignore half the shit above and do what you want though, mate. At the end of the day it's a fucking game and the moment you have to do research and become an expert it on something just to role play it loses fun and feels like a job. It just so happens the guy shitting on you had his terrorist scenario's in the past and had the shit spawned instead of developing his character. What a fucking mug.

 

 

Thank you, bro. Most people have done something before, it doesn't mean that they are the same today so it doesn't matter what Brett has done. I don't believe that Brett has any ill intentions and we are only having a discussion xD. But thanks for having my back bro. yeah. i want to like your comment but then it can be percieved as if I say "fuck you" to brett xDD

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Second point, why would you have a faction named Islam in Los Santos? Los Santos Islamic Union etc. could have more sense.

 

+ Hello, i want to apply for your company, Islam in Los Santos

 

like.. what?

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2 minutes ago, GeroXy said:

Second point, why would you have a faction named Islam in Los Santos? Los Santos Islamic Union etc. could have more sense.

 

+ Hello, i want to apply for your company, Islam in Los Santos

 

like.. what?

you can ask that IC bro.

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46 minutes ago, GeroXy said:

Second point, why would you have a faction named Islam in Los Santos? Los Santos Islamic Union etc. could have more sense.

 

+ Hello, i want to apply for your company, Islam in Los Santos

 

like.. what?

Faction threads aren't actually IC, when being in Atlantic Avenue Crips & The Williamson Crew we never stated either in-game, it's just something to write on the thread so it's not blank.

Plus, if people actually use that name in-game and it's just a filler for a thread, it's easy to report for metagaming, catches a lot of retards out.

 

 

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Topic updated with this!

 

CZ8pvQE.png

 

I hope to be more active now since school is over :)

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Burn the Quran !

 

nah jk, good luck. I rpd with y'all in the past, was interesting.

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On 4/14/2017 at 5:11 AM, Shabo said:

I don't see the problem with people roleplaying terrorists or whatever. It's all IC. Maybe one player roleplays peaceful muslim and then he roleplays the he sees kids in syria and etc and he rolepalyed getting mad so he goes to punish someone. allahu akbar style.

 

I have roleplayed with my muslim characters for 1 or 2 years now and other muslim rpers come in all types. Most people who want to roleplay muslim don't play extremites. They want to combine maybe Afro-american gangster + Muslim identity. That is as realistic as it gets. I live in Malmo in Sweden where many arabs, somalis, turks, kurds, syriacs and other youths participate in criminality and still identifiy heavily with their religion, even if they break many of the religious laws in it. So it is realistic in that sense. Plus there are many mosques who recruit to extremist organisations and so on. It's a normal thing, especially when islam is prelevant in some minority group. look at europe.

It's mostly trolls who rp allahu akbar im gonna blow myself. And trolls are admin's job to handle, not mine. I can only report them if they break rules. However people should be able to roleplay as they want. Islam is very very diverse in it's political movements. Here in Turkey you have anti-capitalist movements who go out from an Islamic perspective.

Plus I don't see a point in actually knowing how Islam works. The people's claiming to be muslim differ a lot in their way of life, even inside the diffrent branches. Turkey for example still has very hetrodox versions of Islam. Alevis, who are called muslims, believe in a trinity between God, Mohammed and Ali. This is not supported in any way by the Qur'an. But they are still considered muslim. Islam is just a label with no content. So anyone can roleplay a muslim without knowing anything about Islam. Many muslims IRL are very unaware of their own religion and are ignorant about it.

 

Alright alright, OOCly as a Muslim, I am offended by what you are saying and by your quotes from the holy Qur'an, this is super disrespectful to any Muslim not just Islam itself. Yes I agree there are many people calling themselves Muslims while blowing shit and killing people all around the world and its not just in Europe, its in Iraq, Syria, Egypt..etc almost every other Muslim country as well, does that mean Muslims are blowing their kids, wives, brothers, sisters and elderly people? does that mean Muslims are killing their self? if you are old enough then you'd notice this is some random people (I'm not going to call them names) that want to make Islam look bad by linking it to terrorists attacks, do you think we Muslims are happy because of whats happening if its in our Muslim countries or in the foreign once? NO absolutely we are NOT happy nor do we condone this type of behavior. As long as you are killing an innocent life, if its Jewish, Atheist, Christian, Muslim or even Hindus  you are a terrorist, and you are NOT and I repeat myself NOT Muslim whatsoever, and I am held accountant by what I am saying, I am also positive that every TRUE Muslim would agree to each and every word I'm typing here 100%.

 

"Islam is just a label with no content. So anyone can roleplay a muslim without knowing anything about Islam."

I super disagree with this part aswell.

 

" Many muslims IRL are very unaware of their own religion and are ignorant about it. "

Yeah, the same goes to every other religion buddy.

 

So in short, No I believe this is actually an insult to Islam, to the Muslim people as well, and I HATE actually Despite that I find this type of behavior in a server/game that I love and support since its early days when it was back in San Fierro in 2014. Also this helps the real ISIS spreading the bad image about Islam, so I wish you learn about the real Islam which is a peaceful religion not the one you are seeing in the TV.

 

Sorry if I was rude, and please excuse my language if I went off the line a few times.  =)

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some right mongs in this thread

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10 hours ago, MEZzZO said:

 

Alright alright, OOCly as a Muslim, I am offended by what you are saying and by your quotes from the holy Qur'an, this is super disrespectful to any Muslim not just Islam itself. Yes I agree there are many people calling themselves Muslims while blowing shit and killing people all around the world and its not just in Europe, its in Iraq, Syria, Egypt..etc almost every other Muslim country as well, does that mean Muslims are blowing their kids, wives, brothers, sisters and elderly people? does that mean Muslims are killing their self? if you are old enough then you'd notice this is some random people (I'm not going to call them names) that want to make Islam look bad by linking it to terrorists attacks, do you think we Muslims are happy because of whats happening if its in our Muslim countries or in the foreign once? NO absolutely we are NOT happy nor do we condone this type of behavior. As long as you are killing an innocent life, if its Jewish, Atheist, Christian, Muslim or even Hindus  you are a terrorist, and you are NOT and I repeat myself NOT Muslim whatsoever, and I am held accountant by what I am saying, I am also positive that every TRUE Muslim would agree to each and every word I'm typing here 100%.

 

"Islam is just a label with no content. So anyone can roleplay a muslim without knowing anything about Islam."

I super disagree with this part aswell.

 

" Many muslims IRL are very unaware of their own religion and are ignorant about it. "

Yeah, the same goes to every other religion buddy.

 

So in short, No I believe this is actually an insult to Islam, to the Muslim people as well, and I HATE actually Despite that I find this type of behavior in a server/game that I love and support since its early days when it was back in San Fierro in 2014. Also this helps the real ISIS spreading the bad image about Islam, so I wish you learn about the real Islam which is a peaceful religion not the one you are seeing in the TV.

 

Sorry if I was rude, and please excuse my language if I went off the line a few times.  =)

 

It's okay bro, you are not rude :)

 

Let me just say that I'm not a Muslim but atheist. I'm half Turkish and Half Abkhazian. My mother's family came as refugees to the Ottoman Empires due to the Russian Empire's forceful deporations of muslim Circassians from the caucasus. My father also comes from an refugee family. His family lived in Artvin in Turkey and fled the Russian army during World War I and was placed by the government in central anatolia. This is my background, if it matters to you. My life is surronded by Islam and my parents forbids me to speak about religion or politics in Turkey because she fears of my life. I don't believe her, she probaly exaggerates, but I have only spent 1/4 of my life in Turkey and the rest in Sweden. But my mother, a muslim, fears other muslims that they will hurt me due to my belief. This is the reality that I meet which may be diffrent than yours bro, but it is like this.

 

Let me begin like this.

 

A dog is a dog indenpendent of our senses. The dog does not become a dog because we call it a dog, but it exists independent of humans. So if I decide to roleplay as a dog, then there is limitations to what I can do with my dog character. Our dog character must act in a certain way because it's character is static. We can draw a clear line between what is a dog and what is a not-dog

 

But ideas are not independent of our senses. We can't say that Islam exists independent of humans. If you can prove that it is, then everyone would convert to Islam. But what we call Islam is not static, it is dynamic. Think of Ghazali's revolution and the change he brought. What is Islam and what is not-Islam isn't ice clear. Islamic scholars will say; "This is Islam and this is not". But there are several of them and they have their disagreements on how the Qur'an and the Hadiths are to be interepted. Of course, one scholar's interpretation of the book is less false than another's. Therefore it is very hard to create an "essence" for Islam, or any religion in that matter.

 

If we look at the real world, we see that muslims are very very very diverse in their faith. Alevites in Turkey claim to be muslim and are also treated as such by the majority of sunnis in the country, but they believe in the trinity of God, Mohammed and Ali. That is not Islam. It is very clear that these people are not muslims, we can draw a line of what is Islam and what is not in this case. But they are treated as such by the real world. We see the dynamic character of Islam in the real world too. Same goes for ISIS. They claim to be muslims, and other people who also claim to be muslim see them as muslims. Here is a Turkish article about a poll asking people if they have sympathy for ISIS.

 

http://www.bbc.com/turkce/haberler/2015/11/151118_pew_isid_anket_turkiye

 

So I have both support from theory and empirical evidence that who is regarded as muslim does not follow a certain formula. Now my question to you bro, should I trust your personal belief of who is muslim and not or should I use the real world as an insperation? bro i love you but I must trust the real world if I'm going to be realistic. You say that Islam exists indepndent of humans and has an "essence" and those who do not roleplay according to this are trolling or doing non-rp and are not doing muslim rp. I say "okay bro, let me check what the world tells me". And I take a look at what the real world tells me and it says that Islam does not have an essence at all, like all religions, but is open ended.

 

Bro I live in Malmö in Sweden and there was this youth arab who died. he was a very criminal person selling drugs and assaulted people and my frined wrote this on facebook about him (it was his brother): "allah yerhamak brother, you are worth more than 100 men". How am I going to make sense of this bro? This is a muslim saying a drug dealer and a criminal, in Sweden where the government gives you money to go to high school + pays you for your university fees up to a Ph.D, is worth more than 100 men? Both you and I would probaly say that this man is not a muslim. But Islam is such an religion that you only have to bring shadah and you are a muslim, end of story. Muslims and the rest of the world regards my friend as a muslim, but what he says is insane for a muslim to say. But he is still regarded as a muslim.

 

Again, the real world tells me that who is muslim or not is not decided by your conception of a muslim but that of the real world. And the real world seems to say to me that you need zero knowledge about Islam to roleplay a muslim. Of course my knowledge is not zero, but I can't make such a demand on other players, I believe it is powergaming.

 

On ISIS I say this bro.

 

They have decided to use violence and intimidation. But please answer this bro. If you look at every muslim country you see that when people get higher income and education, they become more secular and more inclined to critize Islam. They also get bombarded with western media and values or media that is influenced by western values. Westerners value Rationality very highly. It is the foundation of western civilization, and any civilization in that matter. But Rationality does not exist in many muslim countries (read middle-east). Rationality is the death of Islam. Islam has clear demands that you are not to use rationality in education, politics and etc. It is God's law that must rule in those areas. It is okay in science and so on, but it must stop once it enters God's realm.

 

When rationality crtizices the realm of God on rational ground, any religions answer is "But it is God's words". But if rationality is the ONLY thing that humans have to judge if something is true or not, who do you think people will believe? The authority of a religion or rationality? And if you take a look at Egypt and I take a look at Turkey, bro. No matter what politician comes, there will be an increase in income and eduation since it is a unstopping process. And this education is western influenced and induces rationality into the lives of people. This process does not stop. How are you going to protect Islam from the enroachment of Rationality? How will you stop the end of Islam, and religion, by the hands of rationality? ISIS says, we will eliminate it's source, western civilization. Iran says we will stop people acessing it by shuting down twitter. Turkey says we will combat it through our own education and opens up more islamic theology schools. Now you have several options here. But if you are honest, which one do you think has a possiblity to stop it? I believe that the most plausible option is to destroy it's root, western civilization. If you look at Europe, ISIS has a great sucess. Left wing europeans say that we need more open borders and more love and other unrational things in the given situation. This pushes right wingers into unrational actions. ISIS is pushing western civilization to unrationality. It's not Turkey, Iran or Egypt, but ISIS that is fighting the fight for Islam's existence. Prosletyzing does not work, it only prolongs a religion's death. 

 

Islam says that we should live our lives like this and this. Socialism says that we should live our lives by this and this. The only diffrence is that they are articulated as diffrent things but are the same thing. Ideas that propse how society should be organized. You can't demand that we keep Islam sacred just because you call it a religion. Then I can ask every people in this server to stop roleplaying as communists becaues it is not real "real communism". Plus it is an idea, in the end you chose to be a muslim, you can't be offended because someone has a different idea of Islam, nothing says that it is "your" religion.  One could bring the same crtitique to every player roleplaying a criminal african-americans because it creates prejudices of AA's as criminals and reinforces a bad identity for AAs. But would you propose that players should stop roleplaying criminal AAs?

 

But this is the beauty of a roleplay server :). There is no one from the real world telling us that "hey you can't do that!". Let me instead inspire you to roleplay. Think if this faction creates it's own police force and claim the Ganton area as an autonom area. The faction creates it's own ID cards, it's own currency, it's own instutions (DMV, courts and so on). Wouldn't that make some real fun roleplay? How would this be achievable? Think of the roleplay trying to achieve that . One faction might say "We will do this by terror" and the other say that "We will do this by working together with the governing body of LS". You got the fight inbetween the group, then the struggle to prosletyze the locals in the area, the struggle to achieve autonomy and so on. It's a unique area of roleplay and very rich. If we go by the suggestions as some previous people in the thread and say that "only X roleplay is muslim roleplay", then we would restrict these possibilites. That would be sad.

 

sorry for wall of text

 

much love bro 

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25 minutes ago, Shabo said:

 

 

tl;dr I real a proportion of what you said and you're basically saying that islam is just something to add to the identity of a person and not a religion and something he believes. False, I don't know why everybody is looking at the middle-eastern muslims and a "very" small proportion of muslims in Europe, my whole muslim family is spread across Europe and North America and they have no issues and no fear of the consequences of their beliefs and what not, they are respected for that, and the only people who think "Islam=Terrorism" should say "Every caucasian teenager=School shooter" but it's not true because a VERY VERY small percentage of Caucasian teenagers are school shooters, same with muslim terrorists, and fyi as soon as a Muslim kills another human or tortures or does any bad shit then in the eyes of other muslims he isn't considered a Muslim but an atheist and a big liar. Please don't go around RPing communities to make muslims look bad, thank you.

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