[Kidnapping Rules] - Revise

[Vubstersmurf 2,497]

Rule Discussion

 

 

---

 

Subject:

Kidnapping

 

I want to...:

Revise

 

Elaboration:

Okay so after having a discussion with a lot of players for quite some time now in my opinion (and hopefully many others), there needs to be some serious rules in regards to kidnapping.

 

The current rule as it stands:

 

Kidnapping
If planning to leave a character to starve to death, one must have a CK application accepted on the character. Otherwise there must be roleplay intended to free/feed the character

 

This means that the kidnappers could actually keep you for however long they want as long as they feed you.

 

My argument is this is completely unfair. You're basically forcing someone to remain in that roleplay until you get bored essentially. Kidnappings are done normally to make a point or to get information usually if a CK application has been denied (and therefore this is done as an alternative to scare people).  This is fine but to what extent does it end?

Holding someone's character for a long length of time ruins that character,  they would most likely stat transfer and switch characters because there is no point roleplaying on that alt anymore.

 

Some could argue this is exactly the same as cking the character.

 

So in my eyes we need to actually make changes so there are written down rules that everyone is clear on. My suggestion is either stating that a kidnap situation can only last for three days unless they've got an accepted CK application in which they then carry it out.

 

But then I may get caught by letting them go:

Simple. Being in a kidnap situation is extremely stressful and has a huge impact on someones mental wellbeing. This could actually cause an amnesia effect similar to PKing. Instead of having to injury the person or scriptwise killing them to achieve this, when someone lets someone go after kidnapping they are effectively pkd due to the stress and trauma.

Problem solved.

 

I completely understand the reasoning for kidnapping people, its all about creating roleplay but we need to have SOME guidelines to ensure people aren't being held captive just for the sake of it or as a way to get around a denied ck app.  

 

I understand some illegal players may argue this is yet again trying to limit illegal roleplay,  but it's not. It's giving people the chance to do kidnappings, have actual rules regarding it and so players who ARE kidnapped also know that this isn't the full end for their character - otherwise it just ruins the fun for them and limits them as well. Something needs to be done so I thought its time I did the first step so we can all discuss it and hopefully get something lined up, because as it stands I know a lot of people dislike how it is currently done.

 

 

[bladee 1,482]

leave illegal rp alone

[Vubstersmurf 2,497]

1 minute ago, guntars said:

leave illegal rp alone

nu nevar

[BremboBG 255]

I cannot agree. The kidnapping itself shall not be limited for the satisfaction of the player being kidnapped himself on an ooc note. IRL no one gets released my magic in 3 days. The general idea of the suggestion is not, but yer as stated in a lot of other threads. Illegal RP has enough limitations. 

[Vubstersmurf 2,497]

Just now, BremboBG said:

I cannot agree. The kidnapping itself shall not be limited for the satisfaction of the player being kidnapped himself on an ooc note. IRL no one gets released my magic in 3 days. The general idea of the suggestion is not, but yer as stated in a lot of other threads. Illegal RP has enough limitations. 

Currently as it stands someone can be hold forever as long as they are fed, how is that not limiting them? especially if there's no actual reason in the first place.

Kidnappings are done to get information or to make a point which is how it should be. However when someone is kept for good just because they can, how is that fair?
Especially if given the fact they aren't roleplayed with.

[ResidentPeach 7,086]

This revision most likely wouldn't pass and I will share some of my reasons as to why once I've pulled out this delicious Chicago Town pizza out from the oven and had a good scran

[BremboBG 255]

1 minute ago, Vubstersmurf said:

Currently as it stands someone can be hold forever as long as they are fed, how is that not limiting them? especially if there's no actual reason in the first place.

Kidnappings are done to get information or to make a point which is how it should be. However when someone is kept for good just because they can, how is that fair?
Especially if given the fact they aren't roleplayed with.

Well, I suppose that there could be just a bit bigger limit on the time that you can hold someone for hostage. And if you want to raise it more you shall get UAT approval lets say with a valid reason before executing it. 

[Vubstersmurf 2,497]

1 minute ago, ResidentPeach said:

This revision most likely wouldn't pass and I will share some of my reasons as to why once I've pulled out this delicious Chicago Town pizza out from the oven and had a good scran

Well as I said it's just a discussion, current rules as it stands in my opinion aren't enough. However if it doesn't pass that's fine, least I can say I tried.

Just now, BremboBG said:

Well, I suppose that there could be just a bit bigger limit on the time that you can hold someone for hostage. And if you want to raise it more you shall get UAT approval lets say with a valid reason before executing it. 

That's fine, as I said in the actual thing this is just for discussion. The way the rules stand are too basic and after speaking to several people I decided to make a discussion regarding it instead of just saying 'no this will never happen'.

Rules are meant to be able to be changed IF there's call for it.  Yet if I don't make a suggestion and wait for someone else to, then I'm not actually trying.

[Notorious 419]

Everyone disagreeing obviously hasn't had their favourite characters kidnapped before. Yes from me.

[Jordan 3,197]

Yes, there should be a limit on how long you can kidnap and hold somebody for. It's unfair to keep someone for over 2-3 days without them agreeing.

[Destroyed 706]

Yes.

[Diogo 886]

The limit should be like jailing a player, 14 days max, if permanently wanting to kidnap one, CK app. Because as it stands, its just kidnapping people without releasing them is basically wanting to CK without a reason.

[Park 803]

imagine replying to one of these threads and youre litro just hopping on the bandwagon even though you lowkey have no idea what you're talking about

 

I agree with Vubs. While this hasn't personally happened to me some people I know have been kidnapped for literally no reason and have been held for days on end while not having been given any form of RP.

 

 

[TheNeonGuy 1,263]

Nope, i get your point, but sometimes you really need to hold the person until x date until a certain event ends, and three days is not enough. Also, as a person that has been in this type of roleplay, doe never on the victim side, this just kills illegal roleplay, i've personally once bought a player from another player (yes, a slave), the victim had been kidnapped on some random occasion, and was bought off by someone else, eventually leading to me buying said player, with your rule, this roleplay ends.

You are basically restricting roleplay with these rules. It's understandable if people just stop logging onto a character because they don't want to be the victim for months on end, but your said rule just removes possibilities, the kidnapper is still roleplaying feeding you (as he's obliged), you might not like it, but it's roleplay, and, you can still try to escape. If we just keep placing rules because x and y doesn't like roleplaying something against their will, why bother playing on a multiplayer platform. Better off buying sims 4 instead and just doing your thing. You are here to receive what the other person ICly throws at you, if you get kidnapped irl, you are kidnapped, there's no heavenly force that comes to your kidnapper and tells him he needs to release you.

[Vubstersmurf 2,497]

Just now, TheNeonGuy said:

Nope, i get your point, but sometimes you really need to hold the person until x date until a certain event ends, and three days is not enough. Also, as a person that has been in this type of roleplay, doe never on the victim side, this just kills illegal roleplay, i've personally once bought a player from another player (yes, a slave), the victim had been kidnapped on some random occasion, and was bought off by someone else, eventually leading to me buying said player, with your rule, this roleplay ends.

You are basically restricting roleplay with these rules. It's understandable if people just stop logging onto a character because they don't want to be the victim for months on end, but your said rule just removes possibilities, the kidnapper is still roleplaying feeding you (as he's obliged), you might not like it, but it's roleplay, and, you can still try to escape. If we just keep placing rules because x and y doesn't like roleplaying something against their will, why bother playing on a multiplayer platform. Better off buying sims 4 instead and just doing your thing. You are here to receive what the other person ICly throws at you, if you get kidnapped irl, you are kidnapped, there's no heavenly force that comes to your kidnapper and tells him he needs to release you.

The whole 3 days was just to start off a discussion. I'm all for events and what not, or promoting roleplay, that's not what I'm getting at.

 

Yet when random players get kidnapped for no reason and are held for good because they can - Since that's literally how the rules are long as they are fed. Then that actually limits them. If you have an actual reason and as stated above get an extension by UAT which shows you have a decent reason then thats fine.

What isn't fine for many players is the fact they get held, no roleplay throughout, and no actual reason besides - wrong place, wrong time.  Then that's where the issue is.

 

Again as stated in my thread, this is just to start as a discussion. I put 3 days down as an example, if there's roleplay running off something such as waiting for someone to pay money or whatever that's already in the rules currently because its roleplay that shows they would eventually get freed.

 

If you are held captive, with no valid reasoning, and just stuck there doing nothing then thats just as good as a CK application because its destroyed the character. If you try escape you just get ckd for trying. It's like people hold you until you either give up and kill yourself or accept a CK.  This shouldn't be the case, an extension should be given by UAT IF there's a logical reason for the kidnapping, that theres roleplay to show the person would get freed, and/or theres an accepted CK app.

 

You can't just hold someone against their will for infinite time because your CK app got denied.

 

We argue that this limits illegal roleplay, but what about limiting those who have nothing to be kidnapped for in the first place?

[George 1,897]

I agree that there should be some limitations, nothing too much nothing too little, however with admin consent an extension period should be allowed if reasonable. I find it unfair that you’re forced to sit in one location in another persons control.

Edited February 1 by George

[shoks 74]

vuber is a good admin but I feel like this rule would ruin kidnapping altogether

[Maboo 630]

I saw Notorious comment and he got the point. I agree with Vubsters suggestion, not that there is three days limit. But on that there should be limitations on for how long a character can be kept captured. 1) A kidnapped player can't activate his interiors 2) A Kidnapped player can't get involved in RP and if they try to escape, CK is forced upon them. 3) A kidnapped player loses interest to continue RP on the character and it kills RP that way (limiting players from continuing on their developed chars). And answer to the comments who say "kidnapping would be ruined then" then think carefully, what if someone would kidnap you, they have a system worked out to keep your character fed every OOC day as the food delivery RP is done & your char never gets freed?  You have 0 chance in escaping cause locked up in some privately built cell, no tools, no equipment, no chance to escape. Either selfck the char or lose the properties on it as it goes inactive? No-one wouldn't want to have over 100hrs developed char to be kidnapped by some random fellas or other gang & then being kept hostage and never let free. Especially when character is involved in a faction or somewhere else. RP gets killed if people are being kept hostage for long period. Currently, it's the biggest issue in owl that there's a low amount of RP on streets.

[McCatalyst 180]

Kidnapping can be abused to go around CK rules. You have nothing to do and you have to wait for the kidnappers to either get CK app, PK you or leave you there for ever in which case they have to feed you. Which is vague rule.

 

In favor for change where there is a limit on how long you can hold a victim. But it should be a week or two at least.

[Zebulon 1,950]

1 hour ago, BremboBG said:

I cannot agree. The kidnapping itself shall not be limited for the satisfaction of the player being kidnapped himself on an ooc note. IRL no one gets released my magic in 3 days. The general idea of the suggestion is not, but yer as stated in a lot of other threads. Illegal RP has enough limitations. 

+1

[bartman 3,580]

so if i get kidnapped for information I can just not log in and/or stall for 3 or 14 days or however long the rule would be until they're OOCly forced to release me, then immediately snitch to the police when I'm magically released?

So I propose a alternative rule: You may kidnap players as long as you wish, but there must be a objective to the kidnapping.

Examples:

• Someones paying a handsome ransom for them, you know the character is rich.
• They're a rival gang member for example and you need them out of the way while you deal with their gang
• They're a witness to a crime you're about to commit and you need them out of the way until the crime is committed
• You think you can make money off of them some other way (i.e, organ harvesting)

 

While you shouldn't be able to straight kidnap a character just cause and hold them indefinitely, if the kidnapper has probable cause then there shouldn't be limits on how long they hold a player so long as that cause is reasonable and continuous.

Edited February 1 by bartman

[Maboo 630]

3 minutes ago, bartman said:

so if i get kidnapped for information I can just not log in and/or stall for 3 or 14 days or however long the rule would be until they're OOCly forced to release me, then immediately snitch to the police when I'm magically released?

No from me fam.

 

1 hour ago, Vubstersmurf said:

Simple. Being in a kidnap situation is extremely stressful and has a huge impact on someones mental wellbeing. This could actually cause an amnesia effect similar to PKing. Instead of having to injury the person or scriptwise killing them to achieve this, when someone lets someone go after kidnapping they are effectively pkd due to the stress and trauma.

Problem solved.

4

Bartman, I believe Vubster made it clear. And it's dramatic when you are kidnapped, blindfolded and told to not do jack or you get shot. Also, the time limit should vary on the importance of the kidnapped person & what kind of info/use would there be needed form him. 

[ResidentPeach 7,086]

Okay so I'll get straight to the point. This is obviously going to be a very heated discussion, it's two different communities in both the legal and illegal perspectives that will be clashing heads over the entirety of this suggestion. Anyways as someone who is mutual in both perspectives I partially agree with this suggestion however I find the suggested maximum duration absolutely problematic, here's why I think so..

 

• The transparency of the maximum duration allows kidnapee's to explicitly exploit the rule by providing no roleplay for the kidnapper.
• Sort of like the prior point, if someone is kidnapped for the sole intent of extracting information or being demanded to do something through psychological torture then this is not possible in the space of three days; Especially if somebody as I've already said would determine their characters willpower could last three days before losing their mind.
• Characters have spent longer in solitary confinement without any interactions when jailed for crimes, why should a kidnapping entitle a quicker process when you're still actually receiving interactions from the kidnapper and have the ability to create roleplay with them which is what it should be all about to begin with.

So my whole direction here is that we either don't have a maximum duration, or at least have it be a formidable yet fair duration of 14 days like @Diogo had already suggested. That way all the physical and psychological ramifications can apply, and kidnapee's can be guaranteed that they'll eventually be released granted that they've not got a CK application accepted against them. In addition to all of that, if there isn't any literature in the kidnapping rules stating that kidnappers must be consistantly active with their kidnapee then that should be added immediately.

 

[BremboBG 255]

1 hour ago, ResidentPeach said:

This revision most likely wouldn't pass and I will share some of my reasons as to why once I've pulled out this delicious Chicago Town pizza out from the oven and had a good scran

That pizza is taking you forever man.

oof, mb

[McCatalyst 180]

9 minutes ago, bartman said:

so if i get kidnapped for information I can just not log in and/or stall for 3 or 14 days or however long the rule would be until they're OOCly forced to release me, then immediately snitch to the police when I'm magically released?

No from me fam.

If someone doesn't talk they usually get killed, right? If he doesn't talk within two weeks I doubt you'll make him talk within two months or years....  So PK rules (amnesia) would deal with the issue of memory of the incident. It can be RPed that the victim doesn't remember anything. Either way you're punishing the player for following it's characters traits and if you did have a sufficient reason to kidnap him and keep him for ever, you probably have should have a reason to CK them.

Edited February 1 by McCatalyst